S1, Episode 5: Think buyer’s agents are only for the wealthy? Think again.

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We've noticed that there's defects in the property, which then actually did help us negotiate about $25,000 off the price.

Wow! If I had a dollar, for every single time I've had this conversation, I'd be a very wealthy man, somewhere in the Bahamas.

Crystal ball moment, I'm a first home buyer, what area should I be looking to buy in? Depends how much you've got to spend.

Welcome to These Four Walls. The podcast talks to real buyers and experts about the hardest, weirdest and most surprising parts of buying and owning a home in Australia. We'll help you figure out what's going on in the world of property and what to do next.

Hi everyone, I'm Danielle and you're listening to These Four Walls. Today, we're asking: are buyers agents really for the wealthy or can everyday Aussies also use their support?

Our guest is Dylan Thomas. Dylan, thanks for joining us. He's a buyers agent manager right here at Aussie. He's helped people from first homeowners to investors find their right property using our buyers agent services.

Dylan, we have had a listener letter come in from Josh, so let me quickly read that for you. Josh is in Penrith, so he's got two kids. He has pre-approval that keeps expiring. He said he's missed out twice, spent hundreds on reports that he's never used, and after nine months of open homes, missed weekends and failed auctions, he's still searching.

Unfortunately, that's a lot of customer stories that we hear these days, but he is asking us: are buyer's agents just for the wealthy investors or can someone like him and his family use the benefits of a buyers agent?

Thanks Danny, it's great to be here. There's actually a big misconception that buyers agents are just for wealthy investors, but the truth is that we're helping everyday Aussies crack in the market, whether they'd be first-time investors, first-home buyers, we're really helping everybody get into the market and crack their first property. So what we're actually doing is helping people upgrade smarter, with confidence, with the right-purchase strategy, and taking all the stress work out of getting into the market.

Because I know if someone like Josh has been looking for nine months, it's probably cost him more day to day to try and get into this marketplace. So if I was trying to fix my car, for example, and it was taking me weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks, I know for a fact that it probably would have been cheaper for me just to take it in the mechanic in the first place.

Being a buyer's agent, we are doing this every single day. We're in the heat of the negotiation. And if you're just an outsider and you're not working in this industry at this point in time, you're going up against a skilled negotiator who is going to absolutely wipe the floor with you day in, day out. You may be in a position that you're going to overpay for a property in the market. That's where we take over. So we can give you the confidence to go forward, get the property done with the right purchase strategy.

Speaking to Josh personally, like I tried to buy, and I got to a period where I was doing the nine months, the open homes, getting outbid every single time. But the funny thing was, over that nine months, property prices rose. So I was now not even in the range, the house that I wanted, I couldn't even afford because it was outside of that and I was looking to get more finance, to get a higher approval, to still get the same property that a three bed or whatever it was that I was looking for.

So are you finding many customers in a similar circumstance where they come to you guys for help? Each and every day, it's alarming actually how many buyers enter the market thinking they can take on a skilled negotiator, being a selling agent. And being a selling agent myself in the past, I used to have these, all these skills, tactics and golden nuggets in my pocket to try and get you as the buyer with false misconception.

Being a buyer's agent now, I'm teaching a lot of my clients how to combat that, and they're going into the market more confident and actually getting a price that we're all comfortable with, but then also as well securing their dream of owning property here in Australia.

Yeah, and the funny thing is in Australia, like if you look at the US markets, buyers agents are huge over there. Most people will have a buyer's agent. In Australia it is so small, but it's such a growing market. What is a buyer's agent? Like most Australians might not even know what that is, so tell us what you guys do.

Yeah, sure. So, exactly what we do is very different to a selling agent, so I'll separate the two for now. So, what a selling agent does is they work on a commission sliding scale, so the higher the selling price they get for their vendors, the more money is put in their pocket. So they use all these marketing tips and tricks to try and get you the consumer or the buyer to pay more for the property.

That's where we come in. We don't want you to overpay and we don't want you to over commit because being in a mortgage for 30 years is a very long time. So what we actually do is we find the deals, we back it by data, back it with a purchase strategy to give you the confidence to move forward but know that we've done the right job in securing you a 30-year commitment.

So are you hand-holding the entire process, how do you work with the broker in that situation? Like, what's the roles between you both?

Yeah, so first things first is I love to have a chat with the broker. Sit down with them, understand exactly where your max purchase price should be. Then once I understand exactly where your max purchase price is, it's then formulating a strategy. So are you an investor? So we then isolate exactly what location you can afford, why you can afford it, backed by data.

This could be as simple as what has the population growth been happening in these suburbs over the last 10 years? Where has prices started to scale? Now, we can't ever predict the future, but evidence in the past definitely backs what we're trying to push forward. So other little data points such as those things, what are the micro and macro economics as well that is driving those suburbs? That's just for the investors.

If you're a first home buyer, what is the location score? What are the amenities available to you? Is it important that you buy in these suburbs due to the school ratings as well? Do you have family in the area?

I mean, half these things I don't even know to think about, like this is incredible. The average consumer doesn't. So it's just all these little data points that we really like to highlight with you first in our initial strategy session to make sure that when you are being placed in this market and we're in the process of maybe putting an offer forward or starting to negotiate, you have full confidence with us because we actually have confidence in that suburb that we're about to place you in.

And you touched on before, like you went to the broker and you work on their profile if it's an investor, for example. Who is the ideal person for a buyer's agent?

Well, to be honest, anyone that is wanting to crack the market. We have helped hundreds of Aussies crack into this market. So, Josh and his family should be using a buyer's agent to solve. Joshi, if you're watching, mate, please feel free to give us a call. I would love to reach out and help you, especially because you're from Penrith, that's my hometown. I would absolutely love to get more and more people into this market. It's that preconceived idea that it's just for the wealthy, it really has changed because now everyday people are entering this marketplace. But if you don't come to us, you're going up against that skilled negotiator who's going to out negotiate you nine times out of ten.

So if you come to us, we're going to set you up with the right strategy, the right approach, and then ultimately that's going to get you the right outcome.

Yeah, look, there is that misconception that it is for the wealthy, and the misconception comes from buyer's agents are expensive. Let's be transparent. Our listeners want to know what our fees are. And I'll speak from honesty — a few years ago, pre-my-times at Aussie where I'm more educated into the property market, I knew that buyer's agents worked on a scale fee similar to the seller's agent. And I felt conflicted on how someone who earns based on my sale price has my best interest to negotiate that sale price down.

So I've always felt this misconception has come around trust, I guess, for that fee model. So is that fee model typical? What do we see in the market?

It's a scary thought actually that a buyer's agent will get paid based on the sale price on a commission sliding scale for what you've just purchased. Correct. To me, I'd say about 90% of the market is actually doing this at this point in time. So where's the incentive?

Is that just because that's how it's always been in the industry?

That's how it's always been. And I guess where this whole buyer's agent concept was arrived really, is actually from the selling agent. And what is actually put in an agency agreement when a vendor and a selling agent come together to put a property on the market and then obviously trying to achieve the best possible price.

This is where at Aussie, we've totally flipped that on its head. So with us, it's full transparency. So you'll actually know your fees upfront. We also factor that into every feasibility with every property that we assess for you so you know your incoming and then outgoing with every single step of the way of your purchase. From the minute you exchange on a contract to the minute you go through right through the end of settlement you know exactly what you're about to pay, when you're going to pay it and also then how you've got to pay it.

Oh wow, so that's a bit of a differentiator to other models that we see in the market, is this flat fee model that's come in and that's something that Aussie's taken carriage with. Does that mean even if I change my price from 700k to 800k that I'm still paying that same flat fee?

That's correct. That's correct. It's the transparency to have that there is really reassuring and knowing that because we are working on the flat fee we're incentivised to get you the best possible price, not unfortunately make you pay the highest possible price.

And if we put the human at the center of these stories, I'm sure you've got a million and one stories about customers that have been in a jam and I've heard it from a lot of brokers around different stories of how they've had customers that have been in similar situations to Josh for 12 months and then had a buyer's agent in a week found a property sort of thing. Tell me about someone that you've either helped out of a pickle or you've saved them from avoiding a situation that was dire.

Sure. Oh God, to pick one out of the hat. There's been hundreds. I guess I'll go off one that happened last week. So there was this preconceived idea for this client that we were working with that regional was not going to be the best purchase for them. And they wanted to be in the heart of the Melbourne CBD. Unfortunately, they were getting priced out. Everything was just not stacking up to their agreement. The rental yields weren't just meeting their demand.

So, we went a little bit further and we deep-dived and then had to really back this by data as well and suggested Warragul, which is about a two and a half hour drive outside of the Melbourne CBD, but all the micro and macroeconomics just totally stacked up and this well and truly met their yield requirements.

After a bit of education, this purchaser who went for about 40-something days, really getting a bit negative about the market, really not wanting to proceed and go ahead, engaged us, we were able to get them a property within 14 days or so in, yes, a regional area, but this property is performing so well that it's almost meeting the mark for their yield requirements if not actually positively geared at this point in time, and they were over the moon with that. They could not believe a property like that existed.

I actually recently spoke to one of our franchisees up in WA, and he was telling a story about how a buyer's agent missed out on a property — they were just late to the market and it had already sold by the time. But they had a great relationship with the real estate agent and another property came up off market. And then they were able to buy the second property that was in the same strata for the client.

What's the secret sauce there with these off-market properties? And how do buyer's agents have access to these when the everyday Australian doesn't?

I guess to narrow it down to one word, it's consistency. When you do this every single day and you're good at what you're doing, people want to work with you.

Yeah. So, this is where selling agents, they're literally walking out of their listing appointment that they've just had with the vendor — the ink's not even dry on the agency agreement yet — and they're giving me a call: “Dylan, I've got this off-market. This is what the vendor's hoping to achieve. Do you have a buyer for this?”

This is how we're getting in so many doors and getting so many opportunities available for our clients.

Before it's even advertised?

I'm telling you now, the ink is not even dry on the paperwork yet.

How many do you think are getting sold off market?

My God. I would say at least 20% of the marketplace at this point in time, which is absolutely huge.

And everyday Australians wouldn't have access because they don't have those relationships that these buyer's agents are building or?

Well, I'd put it to you like this. The selling agent would like to know that the person they're dealing with is actually pre-qualified. Our job as the buyer's agent is actually to pre-qualify you — to make sure you understand how to purchase, whatever state we're trying to get you to purchase in. You understand all the legislation. You understand what to do when a contract arrives and that you've also got your finance in place. That's the reason why these selling agents want to work with a buyer's agent and not just the everyday consumer.

But how do you match people to the right property?

Through time and time again. It's making sure that we've had the right correspondence with the broker to understand their pre-approval. We've actually coached these people on how to transact in these areas and they understand where pricing points are from day dot. That's how we match it consistently time and time again.

Whoa, I bet you're stuck on the same old real estate apps.

Yeah, try Aussie's new property search with thousands of listings — even off-market.

Ooh, find your next property with Aussie.

We talked earlier about your customer story about the investor. Great outcome. I want to touch on upgrades and downsizers though. So if I'm an upgrader or a downsizer and I'm getting back into the market, I'll probably have no idea how the market's moved.

And I'll put this back to when I was buying a house on the Gold Coast — all my family kept being like, “No, no, no, that's way too expensive. That's way too expensive.” And I was like, “You all bought houses 10 years ago. This is the market now. Like this is a great price. Like, I'm good. Like, you can keep your opinions to yourself.”

So if you think about those customer stories and them coming back into the market, have you got a recent story of where you've helped someone in that situation and how a buyer's agent really helps navigate those markets?

Definitely. If I had a dollar for every single time I've had this conversation, I'd be a very wealthy man somewhere in the Bahamas.

So look, as of recent, lots of buyers are coming to us and saying, “But Mum and Dad said that's too expensive. Mum and Dad don't feel that's a great price.” And of course, this is where having the technology and the tools that we do have to back that by data, and of course, being on the ground negotiating every single day.

So as of recent, a purchaser was looking to downsize with us. So they moved away from New South Wales up to the Gold Coast, moved away from family, and it's a gorgeous little place on the earth. They wanted to come back.

When they left New South Wales, property prices in Western Sydney were sitting around about $350–400K. For anyone living in Western Sydney, you can definitely clarify this and jump on board with this now. They're starting — for something that's run down — at least a million dollars plus.

It was a big scare to them, but showing them how to get into the market and setting expectations nice and early with them, and just prepping them — instead of dropping them in there and their frustrations hitting the ceiling saying, “What the heck is this? I feel like I'm overpaying” — it’s prepping them. Showing them past data. Showing them past evidence of where the market is, to where the market could be as well.

So we took them on that journey, and by the time we did place an offer on a property, they were comfortable, happy, and confident because of the purchase strategy that we had done prior and the purchase strategy that we had executed during the whole process.

Yeah. And they walked away, and I'm glad to say now they're in settlement, ready to pick up the keys in, I hope, about 40-something days.

Great story.

And like we've spoken a bit around how buyers agents can help navigate that situation and save customers time, sanity, and just genuinely understand the process.

But what is that return on investment? Like if I'm putting out money in my pocket to pay this fee, are you saving customers money? Are you quicker to market than most? What data points do you have that show that using a buyer's agent is the best method?

So I guess having that first point of contact with the selling agent, and of course that relationship, we then have access to off-market properties that you wouldn't have access to. Now look, unfortunately, not all off-market properties are created equal for you, the buyer. So obviously we filter through those and that can take time because I guess the relationship with these selling agents that we have can be built over months and months and months and months, which obviously, as you are a buyer and a consumer, that would take you a long time to do and unfortunately you may even miss the market if you can't establish that relationship nice and early.

We're doing the inspections for you. We'll be able to point out little things in properties. For example, the one I was actually just speaking about most recently — the person moving from Queensland back here to New South Wales — we noticed that in some of the properties we've seen some water marks in the study area. Now, knowing that upfront and then helping them negotiate on the spot with the selling agent. Saying, “Hey look, we've noticed XYZ. We've noticed that there's defects in the property.” That actually alerted the selling agent who then alerted his vendor about that as well, which then actually did help us negotiate about $25,000 off the price.

Wow.

Yeah. So that obviously is also subject to building and pest inspection, which then clarified what we had pointed out, which then of course, our purchaser was very happy that we had the experience to be able to point that out to the client. But that's just one of many examples and many touchpoints of what we do.

I did a pest and building and then I got this report and I was like, what am I — I don't know — what does this mean? And just having that advice from someone that could actually say, “This is exactly what to do with that information,” would be so helpful.

It explains it. I guess essentially what we do is we explain it on a human level. And we really break it down. And I guess the beauty of being a buyer's agent, you know your clients so well by the time you are actually ready to go out and purchase a property. You know what tone to use with them, you know what language to use with them as well. So you can communicate with them a lot stronger than just reading word for word what's written on the report. Because to be honest, at first when you read it, you think, “Wow, that is really daunting and scary.”

I know my first couple of years in the industry, I used to absolutely dread waiting for a buyer to come through and read that report. But now we've been in the industry quite a long time. We've done, God, thousands and thousands of transactions. You, as the consumer, would read that report and think, “Wow, I'm about to buy a lemon.” We read that and say, “We can use this to our advantage in getting you a price reduction,” because we know that these are a cheap fix. But obviously, going in there and negotiating for you, we will get the best possible price to sort of scare the vendor or scare the selling agent to definitely help you navigate this market.

How quickly do you find properties for people? I know everything's a bit different, but is there an average of how long it usually takes to help find someone the right home?

If you're going to do this properly, we make sure we have the strategy session first, make sure we're aligned on that. So that can take about a week or so. Then, second is making sure we definitely identify the suburbs that you can afford comfortably and that you're not going to overcommit. So let's just give or take maybe a week or two for that. So definitely under 30 days is where we're aiming for to get you into the market once you engage with us being a buyer's agent.

Josh, you need to reach out buddy. Nine months? You can do it in a month. You've heard it here first.

What's one mistake though that you've seen time and time again that costs buyers the most?

Thinking you can out-negotiate a selling agent.

But you used to be the selling agent.

I know. I know. I used to love it when someone came without any representation. I used to love it when people used to come through with their dad. They would have their arms folded like this and they'd go, “It's not worth this.” But you know what? I would see time and time again — that house would sell. I'd move on to the next house and six months later down the track, I'd go, “You look familiar.” That's because they're still trying to buy, but the market has moved in that last six months.

So thinking they can out-negotiate the selling agent? Huge, huge misconception. Especially when we do this each and every single day. We've got the tips, we've got the tools, we've got all the right conceptions to do this for you. Let us do our job. We are very, very good at it.

Now, crystal ball moment. I'm a first home buyer. What area should I be looking to buy in?

Depends how much you've got to spend.

I've got a million dollars.

You've got a million dollars? Do you know what? I'm really loving the turn up. Actually, I might rewind for a second. I'll give you a bit of an education piece. Okay? And this is all general advice.

It is, it's all general advice.

What I was seeing in the marketplace in Victoria a few years ago as COVID unfortunately came through — I noticed that property prices were absolutely plummeting in Victoria and were almost reaching the bottom of the market. I do believe Victoria is actually back on the climb. So anywhere in those regional little pockets.

I'm just going to throw a few out there for our listeners: Warragul, Morwell, Ballarat, Wendouree — those little hot pockets at the moment. So properties out there at that point in time, about two years ago, were selling in the very low 300s, 400s. We've now seen some of these properties hit somewhere in the 600s.

So what has that actually done in the last two years? That has given you amazing capital growth backed by really strong yields. So if you're a first-time investor, we are really liking Victoria at the moment.

If you've got a little bit more appetite for risk and you want to enter into one of the most aggressive markets, you really can't beat South Australia. The growth there — yeah. That whole South Adelaide region, even North Adelaide. So South Adelaide definitely for its yields, and that’s more for a buy and hold. But North Adelaide, if you've got a bit more risk appetite and you're wanting to do maybe a future development — the zoning codes there are just unbeatable. Playford City Council, that region, are so flexible to get some developments and everything underway. It really would be appetising for a bit more of an aggressive investor.

With all the AI tools coming out, like ChatGPT...

I can't live without it. I've said it twice now on this podcast.

A lot of the younger generations feel like they could get the data or the information or have a go themselves. What would be your advice to them around entering the property market using these tools?

Don't get me wrong, it is great that everyone's got access to all these data points, but you do have to remember: real estate is still a human-to-human transaction. And I'm telling you right now — as great as AI is — you're never going to get that human-to-human connection with the selling agent like we can.

Yeah, so as great as it possibly may get you all the data you need to know to make an informed decision, it doesn't mean it's going to get you the deal across the line.

Well, it doesn't help in the situations once you've read the report, then negotiating how to get that money down — because you actually don't know what the price point is of that stuff.

That's correct.

So that's where you guys come in to really help with that advice, I guess.

That's correct. They overload themselves with data. They read it all through. That can take time — to read all that, assess it, weigh it up against different markets. See, all this AI data, it goes off past data. It doesn't have on-the-ground, current feedback that we're seeing day-to-day, transacting as buyers agents in the markets that they're looking to purchase in.

So without having actually live data come in — which is what we actually have being on the ground day-to-day — this AI, as great as it is, it does have its flaws.

What's one mistake that you see over and over that costs customers?

Falling in love with the wrong house.

That's what I do! Oh my God, such an emotional buyer.

I'm also an emotional eater if that's an overshare.

That makes two of us.

So look, people buy with emotion, not logic. Now, that's how you actually overpay for a lemon. We take the emotion and also the stress out of doing that. We keep you on track with logic and not let your emotion take over.

I mean, I needed a buyer's agent by the sounds of this.

Dylan, thanks so much for joining us today. It's been a pleasure to have you and thanks for all your insights.

Thank you so much for your time.

If you're a first-home buyer, upgrader, investor — having an expert in your corner always helps. If you've got your own buying story, success, stress, or something in between, feel free to reach out via DM on our Aussie Home Loans Instagram account. We'd love to hear from you.

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